Posted 13 years ago
Posted 13 years ago
In a way I am confused, some things seem like a rip off,some things IMVU do seem stupid but many other things make sense.
I mean if you look at it as a "game", well most online make you pay for the extras, without the advantage of earning items and credits free, I mean look at Runescape,one of the most boring MMORPGS going and all you do is click click click and give Jagex your cash each month. Waiting forever to get a 99 level unless you have a bot or no life.
IMVU at least let's you do "offers" to earn credits, and well as this site can attest, quite a lot if you do it right.
As for the VIP and AP, being restricted for minors, as a parent and an adult I'm happy with it, of course kids feel ripped off when denied "the naughty stuff" and the reasons IMVU removed a lot and restricted access is because some adults WERE exploiting it. If IMVU kept allowing virtual paedophilia people would be complaining about that instead, or complaining that they brought an AP and VIP, just to be constantly spammed by giggling kids. I for one would be creeped out if me and my GF were cybering with some chick only to find out she was 12. Although I am sure many kids get around such things if they're determined enough. It's why I for one have banned my kids from using such products until they are older. I want them to experience real relationships as they grow up not get hooked on people from 10,000 miles away that say they're 16 and are actually 44 and they probably will never meet in person as many kids these days do.
Though I think maybe they need a "kids pass" so if allowed to use IMVU, the kids can gain access to more age appropriate stuff that may fill there needs and wants.
IMVU after all is a commercial business, the people running the company have family's and financial commitments themselves. They like us want to put food in their mouths.
I mean if we wanted a completely free IMVU and to screw them over IMVU Mafia's wouldn't be charging for giving away stuff they've learnt to h4c|< themselves when they could be just giving it away. People like the original poster wouldn't be giving VIP then take the 5000 credits from the average joe who is as he states in his post "being ripped off", because allowing them to keep the credits would allow them to buy items from IMVU, that I think would further screw IMVU financially even more, correct
It seems a bit hypocritical in all crying foul when technically the person crying it is also exploiting people to a degree for his own persona/financial gain.
Aren't we all as humans after all all looking for a way to line our pockets one way or another?
IMVU needs money to keep going, this in turn provides exploiters/hackers opportunity to exploit the game and make profit themselves,it also means people like devs make money for creating items,which keeps them doing it, etc etc so on and so forth, it's one big food chain.
It may sound good in theory to say "fight the man" "bring down the system" and sound all just and shit, but you have to be realistic and look at the big picture.
Pirates fight the system by ripping games and movies, which in turn gives the companies an excuse to raise prices for legit users, and they give the games and shit away for free.
Runescape and other games have bots, that exploit the games and make you rich, which in turn ruins the experience for legit users and forces the companies to change their games to combat it,which usually again ruins the experience for legit users,but again usually those bots are free. (except for those that package and sell the same damn things)
When pirating, and that is what selling items or accounts etc is, whether a DVD,game or IMVU, it cannot be made to be a noble sounding cause, and shooting the hand that feeds is stupid. You are not saving the world after all.
But yeah I'm all for forcing them to reduce prices and offering better paid deals. But you wipeout their economy you wipe out the game and everything associated with it, thus you wipeout yourself.
Sorry to rant but this is just how I see it personally.
-- Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:16 am --
P.S As for censoring the forums,it's been shown many times on many sites, that when you enter the site of a PRIVATE business, all notions of "freedom of speech" go out the doors. By joining them you agree to the ToS and many sites and games, including giants like Microsoft clearly state, that hey you've agreed to us big brothering you, if you don't like it there's the door.
Legal action there would be a fail, as you've entered into a contract with them of your own free will.
The only possible legal action is on them failing to deliver goods paid for, etc. You'd have a chance there,if you've parted with money, not received the item, and not been refunded for example.
But yeah censorship issues are for for the real world.
I mean if you look at it as a "game", well most online make you pay for the extras, without the advantage of earning items and credits free, I mean look at Runescape,one of the most boring MMORPGS going and all you do is click click click and give Jagex your cash each month. Waiting forever to get a 99 level unless you have a bot or no life.
IMVU at least let's you do "offers" to earn credits, and well as this site can attest, quite a lot if you do it right.
As for the VIP and AP, being restricted for minors, as a parent and an adult I'm happy with it, of course kids feel ripped off when denied "the naughty stuff" and the reasons IMVU removed a lot and restricted access is because some adults WERE exploiting it. If IMVU kept allowing virtual paedophilia people would be complaining about that instead, or complaining that they brought an AP and VIP, just to be constantly spammed by giggling kids. I for one would be creeped out if me and my GF were cybering with some chick only to find out she was 12. Although I am sure many kids get around such things if they're determined enough. It's why I for one have banned my kids from using such products until they are older. I want them to experience real relationships as they grow up not get hooked on people from 10,000 miles away that say they're 16 and are actually 44 and they probably will never meet in person as many kids these days do.
Though I think maybe they need a "kids pass" so if allowed to use IMVU, the kids can gain access to more age appropriate stuff that may fill there needs and wants.
IMVU after all is a commercial business, the people running the company have family's and financial commitments themselves. They like us want to put food in their mouths.
I mean if we wanted a completely free IMVU and to screw them over IMVU Mafia's wouldn't be charging for giving away stuff they've learnt to h4c|< themselves when they could be just giving it away. People like the original poster wouldn't be giving VIP then take the 5000 credits from the average joe who is as he states in his post "being ripped off", because allowing them to keep the credits would allow them to buy items from IMVU, that I think would further screw IMVU financially even more, correct
It seems a bit hypocritical in all crying foul when technically the person crying it is also exploiting people to a degree for his own persona/financial gain.
Aren't we all as humans after all all looking for a way to line our pockets one way or another?
IMVU needs money to keep going, this in turn provides exploiters/hackers opportunity to exploit the game and make profit themselves,it also means people like devs make money for creating items,which keeps them doing it, etc etc so on and so forth, it's one big food chain.
It may sound good in theory to say "fight the man" "bring down the system" and sound all just and shit, but you have to be realistic and look at the big picture.
Pirates fight the system by ripping games and movies, which in turn gives the companies an excuse to raise prices for legit users, and they give the games and shit away for free.
Runescape and other games have bots, that exploit the games and make you rich, which in turn ruins the experience for legit users and forces the companies to change their games to combat it,which usually again ruins the experience for legit users,but again usually those bots are free. (except for those that package and sell the same damn things)
When pirating, and that is what selling items or accounts etc is, whether a DVD,game or IMVU, it cannot be made to be a noble sounding cause, and shooting the hand that feeds is stupid. You are not saving the world after all.
But yeah I'm all for forcing them to reduce prices and offering better paid deals. But you wipeout their economy you wipe out the game and everything associated with it, thus you wipeout yourself.
Sorry to rant but this is just how I see it personally.
-- Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:16 am --
P.S As for censoring the forums,it's been shown many times on many sites, that when you enter the site of a PRIVATE business, all notions of "freedom of speech" go out the doors. By joining them you agree to the ToS and many sites and games, including giants like Microsoft clearly state, that hey you've agreed to us big brothering you, if you don't like it there's the door.
Legal action there would be a fail, as you've entered into a contract with them of your own free will.
The only possible legal action is on them failing to deliver goods paid for, etc. You'd have a chance there,if you've parted with money, not received the item, and not been refunded for example.
But yeah censorship issues are for for the real world.
Posted 13 years ago
@doomed: A profit, yes; a 40 mill per year profit, no.
IMVU inc can afford to take a hit to the economic gonads.
As for taking away free speech, as long as this site exists...I can guarantee IMVU users will a place to say whatever the hell they want. Whoever made the IMVU TOS can stick that in their pipe and choke on it.
Also, why are you giving IMVU inc ideas on more services they can charge us for? A "kids pass"? Really? Are we going to start charging kids for being kids? Heck...why do we not make a girls and boys pass so people have to pay to be recognized as a gender? ~shuts up before I give IMVU inc ideas~
IMVU inc can afford to take a hit to the economic gonads.
As for taking away free speech, as long as this site exists...I can guarantee IMVU users will a place to say whatever the hell they want. Whoever made the IMVU TOS can stick that in their pipe and choke on it.
Also, why are you giving IMVU inc ideas on more services they can charge us for? A "kids pass"? Really? Are we going to start charging kids for being kids? Heck...why do we not make a girls and boys pass so people have to pay to be recognized as a gender? ~shuts up before I give IMVU inc ideas~
Posted 13 years ago
Don Von Free Credits wrote:@doomed: A profit, yes; a 40 mill per year profit, no.
IMVU inc can afford to take a hit to the economic gonads.
As for taking away free speech, as long as this site exists...I can guarantee IMVU users will a place to say whatever the hell they want. Whoever made the IMVU TOS can stick that in their pipe and choke on it.
Also, why are you giving IMVU inc ideas on more services they can charge us for? A "kids pass"? Really? Are we going to start charging kids for being kids? Heck...why do we not make a girls and boys pass so people have to pay to be recognized as a gender? ~shuts up before I give IMVU inc ideas~
I'm not trying to give IMVU ideas to make more money. Just putting out thoughts on ways to get by the "kids are hard done by" bit so often touted by the under age crowd. As I said, what adult could in good conscience want to allow children access to AP or Blackmarket materials?
I'm talking about offering kids free or heavily reduced stuff that is age appropriate to maybe encourage them to use their real ages and maybe make them not want to try and go for the "taboo" things, get them put into an age appropriate category that will limit the wrong kinds of adults from getting involved with them. That if you sign up for a free under 17-18 account you get the "kids pass" that unlocks content not available for adults. With perhaps "games" to earn creds like the "pet"
Of course with their profit margin they can take a hit otherwise we wouldn't be here, except that I can only find stats on revenue earnt in 2009 from user made goods and not over all profit, but how much of a hit is acceptable? I mean everyone could be here looking for the free stuff and then everyone would be screwed. The fact is we need IMVU to profit to some extent so we can have the options to exploit them. But as I stated, those attempting to screw over IMVU are themselves profiting in the process. Unfortunately we don't have the power to view financial records of "hackers"to see how much they're earning like we do big business, I guess it's hard to put it correctly, just if the shoe is on the other foot, we tend to view things differently.
Like paying IMVU customers maybe have the right to be pissed off and holier than thou over being over charged, developers for being on the short end of the stick with profit division by IMVU, but someone who is getting their stuff for free, and on selling it, reaping credits by the thousands to resell for real money it comes off as being a bit shallow and fake to me, but honestly I don't know how much cash resellers and hackers are pulling. But if it was deemed by myself to be too much then would that give me the right to undermine/undercut that person and put them out of business, because of my own perception that they are in my book "too rich"?
Taking action to get prices reduced and better content and service IMO is a great idea and fine, but standing on a soap box demanding we all fight to bring down the system and make it free seems a bit extreme and counter productive for all.
Not trying to start arguments here, just expressing my views and maybe opening up a bigger picture of both sides of the coin so I can get a better idea of how far I myself would participate in such actions I guess.
As for the freedom of speech, as I said that is IMVU's Terms, and we agree to it when posting on their forums, so we have to expect a company will exploit it, every business with a public site does, as for TIM's that is your Terms, you also have rules that we have to abide by and have agreed to,otherwise there would be no bans and trolls could run free. Anyone with any knowledge of forums knows it has to be that way as I'm sure you do.
I'd really be interested though to have all of IMVU's details, total profits, expenses, staff, how much goes back into development and promotion, etc etc, Because they don't seem to make too much public with regards to finances, again as many businesses won't and all I get online is 3rd party info with nothing to back it up, except peoples word that it is factual.
Posted 13 years ago
doomed wrote:Like paying IMVU customers maybe have the right to be pissed off and holier than thou over being over charged, developers for being on the short end of the stick with profit division by IMVU
Well I am a developer and I do develop legit to make a profit as well as do what I do here. Therefore, I think I have the right to be "pissed off" as it were.
Age verified adults should have the ability to do whatever they want on Imvu though. As long as it's consensual and they aren't hurting anyone then who cares?
Just because children can sneak into R-rated movies does not mean all theaters should stop showing movies above pg-13. Children can also get adults to buy them cigarettes, do you think all cigarette companies are gonna stop selling them?
Besides, children are not gonna be so traumatized and hurt by seeing nudity in real life, it's just an American bullshit lie. So seeing a pixelated boob on Imvu shouldn't be an issue either. (Not saying they should be allowed you fuck on Imvu or see sex on Imvu)
I understand what you're saying though.
Posted 13 years ago
doomed wrote:
I mean if we wanted a completely free IMVU and to screw them over IMVU Mafia's wouldn't be charging for giving away stuff they've learnt to h4(k themselves when they could be just giving it away. People like the original poster wouldn't be giving VIP then take the 5000 credits from the average joe who is as he states in his post "being ripped off", because allowing them to keep the credits would allow them to buy items from IMVU, that I think would further screw IMVU financially even more, correct?
There is no way to get the VIP for free, the 5k is for paying for the VIP.....
Posted 13 years ago
Random wrote:That's why I pointed it out. Also it takes so much work that none would do it if they wouldn't get any profit from it.
Actually it's a pretty simple task, it may be time consuming depending on how slow Paypal is at the time but otherwise the only hard part about it is convincing people that you don't want to steal their accounts.
Posted 13 years ago
I was so bored that I actually read the whole thing. Epic awesome <3
Jon is against:-
1.Jon is against IMVU's policy of "Guilty by association".
2.Jon is also against IMVU cutting down on credit flow (1 month VIP used to be 12k credits, now it's 5k credits.)
3.IMVU kinda acts like the "Kiddie Pass" thing because IVMU separates a person of age above 18 from people below 18 and vice versa.If you have any doubts ,make an account with an age below 18 and another above 18, then try finding the below 18 account using the above 18 account. Plus the access pass doesn't give below 18 people from nudity/cigs/alcohol etc
4.Access Pass is not really the key to adult world but it's the shame to adult world and people who have AP will agree with it (I'm kinda sure about it)
and ... hackers and crackers CAN make shit load of money off IMVU XD
Jon is against:-
1.Jon is against IMVU's policy of "Guilty by association".
2.Jon is also against IMVU cutting down on credit flow (1 month VIP used to be 12k credits, now it's 5k credits.)
3.IMVU kinda acts like the "Kiddie Pass" thing because IVMU separates a person of age above 18 from people below 18 and vice versa.If you have any doubts ,make an account with an age below 18 and another above 18, then try finding the below 18 account using the above 18 account. Plus the access pass doesn't give below 18 people from nudity/cigs/alcohol etc
4.Access Pass is not really the key to adult world but it's the shame to adult world and people who have AP will agree with it (I'm kinda sure about it)
and ... hackers and crackers CAN make shit load of money off IMVU XD
Last edited by DataMine on Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Fixed Spelling
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